CMST 350

Isocrates eristics vs. sophists

"The Eristics" = individuals who disputed about theoretical and ethical matters The Sophists = individuals that offered rote training in the techniques of political debate

What are the original components of Aristotle's Rhetorical Triangle and what have contemporary scholars added to that triangle and why?

-3 Original Elements to the rhetorical triangle: Audience, Speaker, subject -Contemporary scholars added: Context/Aim to Audience, Speaker, subject

What are some implications of dissoi logoi for everyday life?

-A culture's common sense is marked by disagreement --'out of sight, out of mind' vs. 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' -Competing voices in our own head 'you're only in college once' -Expect disagreement. -Value disagreement.

How so Plato's and Aristotle's beliefs of rhetoric differ?

-Aristotle: Focus on the practical (holistic idea) general principles, he seeks general principles, not universal Truths -Aristotle-He's no defender of Sophists, but he doesn't agree with Plato on critiques of rhetoric (But he does believe that rhetoric has its place....more on that soon!) -Aristotle-No universal truths, but general principles -Believes that rhetoric is founded on knowledge of what is generally the case

Isocrates defines eloquent speech as

-Artful n Devoted to truth -Reflecting Moral character -Committed to the public or common good

According to Aristotle, how do Dialectic and Rhetoric relate?

-Both are general methods without particular subject matters -People naturally engage in both -Both reasons in opposite in direction ("none of the other arts reasons in opposite directions")

Be able to compare and contrast Plato's view of rhetoric to The Sophists view (e.g. monologue versus dialogue; persuasion versus convincing) and understand the differences in perspective

-Differences between plato & the sophist: --Persuasion vs convincing. Plato (platonic view) wants people to convince : makes you do something apart of it, Persuasion: plato says it should be more of a process of convincing.

What is Protagoras's principle of dissoi logoi?

-Dissoi Logoi - there's (at least) two sides to every issue -Stages debates for fun & to help individuals develop an ability to engage in dissoi logoi -Everything is arguable, but we agree on truths to keep society steady -DISSOI LOGOI = Countervailing Arguments For every issue, there are (at least) two opposing (or "countervailing") arguments -Broader sense...any matter, phenomenon, or issue invites competing 'logoi' (accounts of that thing, be they descriptive, evaluative, or argumentative) -One develops the ability to engage in dissoi logoi through → Eristic: Greek word for "debate" or "argument"

Differences between Isocrates and older sophists

-Distanced from their cultural radicalism ....Believed that rhetoric needs to be put into service of the common good -Believed the technē of rhetoric needs to be guided by knowledge and good moral character -Emphasized natural ability and experience

Where can we witness public eristic in society today? (or can we?)

-Eristic (Greek work for "debate" or "argument") -Protagoras perhaps the first to stage debates -Insists on always arguing both sides of an issue

And how does Socrates differ from the Sophists?

-Favored speaking to fewer people -Back and forth dialogue/ questioning, used cross examination -Never wrote anything down -Aimed to discover what was true and right -Didn't want to live a politically active life -Human goodness depended on grasp of truth -Didn't charge for his teachings

Who were the sophists

-Foreigners who came to teach this concept -Created the two forms of arguing and debating -First of public debates -Started stuff up by setting up formal debate -Have different beliefs-they were introducing new ways to live -Introduce all of these flaws and new ways of living and some wanted to just live their lives -A group of orators, educators, writers, and advocates that developed rhetoric as a systematic study -Wealthy and famous in Greece, as well as despised by some advocates of traditional Greek social values

What specific claims does Gorgias make about speech (logos)?

-Gorgias makes a case for the power of language to change the whole person -Gorgias says the power of language= magic, drugs, deceitful -Unlike some of the other sophists, Gorgias never claims to teach virtue, only oratory

Isocrates relationships with others

-Gorgias' student -Plato's competition -Combined the teachings of the Sophists with those of Socrates and in this way laid a foundation for Aristotle

Who was Isocrates? Why is he significant to the history of Rhetoric as a discipline?

-Gorgias' student (likely protagoras' and socrates' as well) & Plato's competition -Native Athenian, good education, family hardships due to War -Significant because: He was a speechwriter who opened up his own school in 392 BCE -Isocratean Education- his school was largely responsible for making rhetoric the basis of education in ancient Greece -Rhetoric was central to education

Never wrote anything down How did Socrates die (and for what reasons)?

-He was charged with corrupting youth and questioning religion -Found guilty by vote and sentenced to death -He was his own executioner by drinking a cup of poison hemlock

In rhetoric history, gorgias was known for...

-His grand style His poetic style was especially popular among the less educated -His contrariness According to Aristotle, Gorgias abided by the principle that "the opposition's seriousness is to be demolished by laughter, and laughter by seriousness" (Rhetoric III, 18, 1419b3) -His willingness to discourse on any subject he is known for walking into the agora and saying 'suggest a topic,' thus helping to found extemporaneous oratory -He was known as someone who improvised well, and who was prideful and perhaps self-aggrandizing about it

How do Plato and Aristotle relate?

-His writings are a response to Plato --Plato said: "this, therefore that" produces knowledge --Aristotle said: "probably this so likely that" produces belief

Isocrates as a teacher

-Isocrates' family suffered severe financial hardship as a result of the Peloponnesian War -As a consequence of the family ruin, Isocrates had to make a living for himself. -He started out as a speechwriter (logographer) before opening his own academy in Athens around 392 BCE (5 years before Plato's more famous Academy!) -Isocrates wrote many speeches but, ironically, never delivered any of them! - his speeches were composed for his students—some of whom were the most influential citizens of his day

Similarities of Isocrates and older sophists

-Kairos and Good style -Value of training rhetoric -He was a teacher of rhetoric -Charged money -Practical concern

Know the most important factors Isocrates says contribute to good oratory

-Natural speaking skills -Good moral character

How were his beliefs about Rhetoric (and the Sophists) shaped by historical events?

-No fan of the demos (Greek work for "village") -Believed Athens had succumbed to the ineptitude of poor leaders and teachers, such as Protagoras and Gorgias -Opens The Academy around 387 BCE -Aristotle is his most famous student -Rivals Isocrates' academy

What is 'the Socratic method'? What did it entail and what were the goals?

-Not lecture teaching, more of a shared dialogue between teacher and students in which both are responsible for pushing the dialogue forward through questioning -The "teacher" (more of a guide, or leader of the dialogue) asks probing questions in an effort to expose the values and beliefs which frame and support the thoughts and statements the participants in the inquiry

In rhetorical history, who was Gorgias?

-One of the first great rhetoricians in the classical period -Relativist/ skeptic -Boasted of being able to persuade anyone of anything

Who was Socrates and how does he relate to Plato?

-Philosopher who participated in politics -Fought in Peloponnesian war -Known for being eccentric, argumentative, challenging -Plato was Socrates most famous student

Know who Plato was and why he is significant to the field of Rhetoric

-Plato was Socrates' most famous student. -Although he was not present at his mentor's death, he did know those who were there. Plato describes the scene through the narrative voice of the fictional character Phaedo. -Born to a wealthy, distinguished, Athenian family -Significantly influenced by Socrates and the events during his youth -opposite of the sophists

Aristotle argue three basic points

-Rhetoric can be treated as a coherent area of inquiry -Rhetoric and logic are necessary counterparts -The form and function of speeches are shaped by the possible speech goals

Know who Aristotle was and why he is significant to the field of Rhetoric

-Son of a physician -Studied with Plato for 30 years -Most famous student from Plato's school -Wrote the first textbook on Rhetoric: in response to Plato -Starts to say that Rhetoric & Dialectic are counter parts -Was not as elitist

Who was Protagoras?

-Sophist -Great practitioner of rhetoric -Alleged to have been the first person to charge for lectures -"Man is the measure of all things; of things that are not, that they are not; of things that are, that they are" -People make determinations about what is or is not true, and that there is no absolute to which we can appeal to settle such questions -His claim embodies the concept of kairos

What criticisms does Isocrates make of the Sophists (such as Gorgias)?

-The sophists neglected all the good aspects of rhetoric like justice, honesty, and character. By doing so they "became nothing more than Prefessors of meddlesomeness & greed". -In "Against the Sophists," Isocrates announces that no art (techné) can teach justice (which is something like ethics or good moral character), but that "the study of popular eloquence helps both to acquire and practice it."

why did sophists initially have a bad reputation in Ancient Greece?

-There was a general anti-rhetoric movement in Athens -They sold their skills as teachers of rhetoric—even though they were local celebrities, people also thought they were hacks -Plato thought rhetoric was immoral and dangerous -Some of them were probably pretty cheeky -They didn't systematize rhetoric like Aristotle -They were thought to be obsessed with style, rather than the search for Truth **the ultimate criticism was they cared more about how you say something rather than what you say

What are Gorgias' purposes in the speech Encomium of Helen? What made this speech especially provocative for Greeks in Ancient Athens?

-Was written as Gorgias' showpiece to attract students -Sought to provocatively challenge the doxa of the day = Demonstrated the double aims of rhetoric: 1. Aesthetic pleasure (terpsis) 2. Shaping belief (pistis) -Considered to be a masterwork of alliteration and symmetry = demonstrates the persuasiveness of style (over substance?) -Argues deeply for the power of language = Helen was likely convinced by speech

Does Aristotle believe that we should always argue both sides of an argument? Why or why not?

-While Dialetic allows us to see the 'Truth' of a situation, rhetoric allows us to reason from all directions, providing a more complete understanding of a situation. -"The ability, in each particular case, to see the available means of persuasion"-RHETORIC -Its a human ability-its something i am born with an appreciation for but to learn how to use it and practice it, is something we should go to school.

techne

-art, not just doing something, moves to a craft/art by following: --Yields some product --Marked by principles --Practical judgement --learnable

What is rhetoric?

-the oldest study of communication in the western tradition -Formal study flourished in ancient Greece

Know Herrick's six social functions of Rhetoric

1. Ideas are tested 2. Advocacy is assisted 3. Power is distributed 4. Facts are discovered 5. Knowledge is shaped 6. Communities are built

Which specific objections to rhetoric does the character of Socrates raise in Plato's Gorgias?

1. Is this Dialogue an authentic presentation of competing points of view? Plato uses dialogue to illustrate and practice dissoi logoi. 2. Is this Dialogue a strategic presentation of Plato's true philosophy? Plato uses dialogue to pursue his true philosophy.

In Plato's Gorgias, Socrates objects to the use of rhetoric bc: A-Teaching rhetoric does not guarantee that the speaker's intentions are good B-Those skilled in rhetoric can entice the audience to accept false knowledge C-Rhetoric does not persuade it convinced and convincing is a form of deception D-All of the above E- A&B

A&B

Which factors led to the "rise of rhetoric" in Ancient Greece? A-Society, in general, admired intellectualism B-The middle class was shrinking in size C-Women were gaining political power D-All of the above E-None of the above

A-Society, in general, admired intellectualism

According to Aristotle, how do Dialectic and Rhetoric differ from the other?

Aristotle says it's not a Rhetoric versus Dialectic, it's Rhetoric & Dialectic, in order to get the job done

Three things in Aristotle's Rhetorical Triangle

Audience, subject, speaker

What is the difference between socrates and Sophists? (Which of the following is true?) A-Unlike the Sophists, Socrates questioned received opinions (doxa) B-Unlike the Sophists, Socrates dealt with ethical practices C-Unlike the Sophists, Socrates favored speaking to large crowds D-Unlike the Sophists, Socrates sought to live a politically active life

B-unlike the sophists, Socrates dealt with ethical practices

The sophists were controversial for which of the following? A-For introducing a sense of relativism to the nature of reality B-Not being athenian citizens C-Because some engaged in elaborate speech which persuaded the ignorant D-All the above

D-All the above

Why did Gorgias write Encomium of Helen? A-To attract students B-To demonstrate the power of language C-To restore Helen's image among the greeks D-All of the above E-None of the above

D-All the above

Know Aristotle's definition of rhetoric (and the significance of each component of that definition)

Definition: "The ability, in each particular case, to see the available means of persuasion" -Studying rhetoric is an awareness in you and these can lead to available means of persuasion-and the more you study it, the more you will be able to see persuasion around you.

Protagoras argues that an individual gains from being able to argue both sides of an argument. This concept is called ______

Dissoi Logoi

In Plato's- Gorgias, Socrates objects to use rhetoric because.. A-Teaching rhetoric does not guarantee that the speaker's intentions are good B-Those skilled in rhetoric can entice the audience to accept false knowledge C-It convincing and deception D-All of the above E-A&B

E-A&B

What does Isocrates think the relationship between Rhetoric and politics should look like?

Education should form people capable of serving the state

'the Isocratean Ideal':

Eloquence = Artful speech, guided by devotion to truth, practiced by speakers of good moral character, and aimed at promoting the public or common good. -He called what he taught "philosophy"— but he means something distinctive by that. -He rejected Plato's view of Philosophy as a search for the ultimate Truth, and proposed this instead: Eloquence

Know Aristotle's three forms of proof (persuasive appeals) and be able to identify examples of each

Ethos: appeals to credibility/authority Pathos: appeals to feelings/emotions Logos: appeals to logic/arguments

Gorgias was Protagoras's teacher: T/F

F

Isocrates would disapprove of the idea of General Education GE) college credits because, instead of liberal arts education, he was a big proponent of students becoming experts in only one subject: T/F

F

Plato believed rhetoric was the best opportunity to increase public good: T/F

F

There was no form of rhetoric before the greeks: T/F

F

What does Plato believe about the relationship between Truth and dialectic?

From dialectic you can find the Truth

Doxa

Greek for common belief or popular opinion; aka stuff we all agree on the meaning of

Episteme

Greek for knowledge- contrasts doxa

Know Herrick's six characteristics of Rhetoric

Planned Adapted to audience Shaped by human motives Responsive to a situation Persuasion Seeking Concerned with contingent issues

What are some key differences between Plato's method of teaching and Isocrates approach?

Questions and more questions of the questions Human nature is not a science

In plato's gorgias which two people are debating the meaning and value of rhetoric?

Socrates & Gorgias

Socrate's was Plato's teacher: T/F

T

Why is Socrates commonly paired with the Sophists?

Taught young men Questioned received opinions (doxa)

What is a "sophistic definition of rhetoric"? What is the 'double aim' of rhetoric, according to the Sophists?

The Sophists conceived rhetoric primarily as a technē (art) whose medium is logos (argument) and whose double aim is terpsis (aesthetic pleasure) and pistis (belief).

Kairos

The opportune moment in time and space

Terpsis

aesthetic pleasure

Logos

argument/logic

Aristotle said: "Probably this so likely that" produces

belief

Ethos

credibility/ character

Eristic

debate or argument

Pathos

emotions

What are some applications of dissoi logoi for rhetoricians?

good for rhetoricians to see both sides of an argument

How would you describe Gorgias's speaking style? How about his approach to teaching?

his grand style -Unlike some of the other sophists, Gorgias never claims to teach virtue, only oratory

Plato said: "This, therefore that" produces

knowledge

Aristotle introduced the term____ to refer to persuasive appeals that drew from the quality of an argument being made

logos

Gorgias and ____ were relativists and skeptics who taught that speech wasn't simply a conservative force for maintaining the tradition but could be a tool for change as well.

protagoras

What is the relationship between rhetoric and public life?

rhetoric is a public good

Pistis

sharing beliefs

To prepon:

the appropriate -calls attention to when, where, and how it is addressed

Dialectic

the art of investigating or discussing the truth of opinions

Dissoi Logoi:

the concept of opposing arguments, Greek for "double arguments", a part of so physic ideology

To dynaton:

the possible -a better or more complete version of that which is present