Collaspe Prologue and Ch.1 Montana
What is the major controversy Diamond identifies as pertinent to any understanding of the ecological collapses of past civilizations? What opinions do you have regarding this controversy?
"past peoples did things that contributed to their own decline" People inadvertently destroying he environmental resources on whcoh their societies depend. I believe that in many cases, the collapse of societies does involve the inadvertent destruction of resources. Especially in cases like Easter Island, while I believe that Diamond's view was a little extreme, the people of Rapa Nui did degrade their resources for the sack of religious statues that ultimately lead of the collapse of their society.
What are the main factors Diamond identifies in the "five-point framework" as possible causes for collapse? It may be useful to keep these in mind when reading about each society.
1. Damange that people inadvertently inflict on their environment 2. Climate change 3. Hostile neighbors 4. Decreased support by friendly neighbors 5. Society's response to its problems (environmental or otherwise)
Recall Diamond's five-point framework for examining the contributing factors of societal collapse. What examples of these factors are present in his account of the Bitterroot Valley and Montana in general?
All five of the points in the five-point framework for examining contributing factors of societal collapse are evident in Montana/Bitterroot Valley. Below are some examples from each of these points that more directly states the issues Montana/Bitterroot Valley is facing: Human Impact on the Environment: over logging, mining, human-introduced pests such as Rainbow Trout and various weeds, overconsumption of water (depletion of aquifers), and development of land. Climate Change: global temperature rise has led to the melting of glaciers (which has impacted agriculture and charging of aquifers and waterways) and contributed to dry, hot summers that prolong wildfire seasons (leading to many problems including poor air quality, habitat/biodiversity loss, economic turmoil, etc.). Decreased Support from Friendly States: economic competition for agriculture and logging in other states where seasons are longer and more crops can be grown/trees grow quicker, has led to the economic decline in Montana, making it hard for residents to survive if they are part of these industries. Hostile Neighbors: mainly economic competition between Chile for mining. The immigration of residents from other states (not necessarily hostile in nature, but who's actions greatly affect the people). On page 33 Diamond also includes "overseas terrorists and oil producers" as another example for this point, but he did not elaborate much on this related to Montana. Societies Responses to their Problems: Zoning and planning regulations are not very evident in Montana leading to land use issues and the decrease in agricultural land. Many residents are opposed to government intervention and higher taxes, although Montana relies heavily on governments and funds from taxes to fix environmental and societal struggles. Mining companies often claim bankruptcy or try to minimize their clean-up costs to avoid dealing with toxic wastes. Dams and reservoirs have been poorly constructed and solving these issues is stagnant and takes long. Machinery to fix many of the issues in Montana must be helicoptered in—which is expensive—and companies/municipalities would prefer not to resort to this.
Chapter one ends with four stories shared by current Montana residents. Did any of these stories resonate with you? Which did you find the most compelling and which the most disturbing?
All of the stories resonated with me, I thought the most disturbing and compelling story was that of John Cook who moved to Montana after establishing a spiritual bond to the Bitteroot Valley. He talked about how he didn't want to live in a place that was becoming a stip mall. "A view of open space is important to me" he says. I understand this because I grew up in a rural area in the city of Howell, MI. I could not imagine not being able to hear the crickets and coyotes at night before I slept. the distrubing part of his story was when he conveyed how he would want to die-after his wife and with a large supply of morphine in the middle of the woods where his last view would be of the beautiful scenery he loved.
A good prologue should state the full core argument of the book, including its key conclusions. Does this prologue succeed at this task? If so, what is Diamond's core argument?
I think Diamond does succeed in this task. I believe his core argument is that all societies are a risk of collapse, and how societies choose to deal with the stressors determines if a society will survive. Diamond says that this is the first time in history that we face ther isk of a global decline, but we are also enjoying a first opportunity of learning quickly from developments in societies anywhere in the world today, and from what has unfolded in past societies. We can learn for the mistakes of past societies so we too do not fall into collapse.
On page 18 Diamond states that "This book employs the comparative method to understand societal collapses to which environmental problem contribute." How do you think this approach could be useful in understanding the drivers of societal collapse?
I think that evironmental problems can cause huge stressors to a society, and the way the respond to those factors will determine whether or not a socitey can overcome their obstacles and thrive.
On p.15, Diamond refers to opinions about environmental impacts as falling into two camps: (i) environmentalists, (ii) and 'non-environmentalists' who may believe that concerns are 'exaggerated and unwarranted'. The says this second group does not have a short label. How would you describe those who hold those opinions?
In his book he says that often non-environmentalists= pro business, but that this is not alwasy the case. He also states that if environmentalists are not willing to engage with big businesses, it won't be able to solve the world's environmental problems. I think that those who believe that there are two strict categories to determine who cares or doesn't about the environment are inaccurate. I believe there are people that can be both business and evironmentally friendly, and I believe-like Diamond- that this is the only way to make positive changes in the environmental problems our society is facing.
Who was Ozymandias and how does the quote "Look on my works ye Mighty, and despair!" from Shelley's famous poem relate to Diamond's argument? How does Shelley's poem set the tone for the book?
King of kings. The quote relates to Diamond's argument becasue it is saying that the unawareness and selfishness of men like Ozymandias leads to the collaspe of societies. And that the rise of socieities is powerful and grand until their actions lead to "colossal wreck, boundless and bare." The poem sets a tone to the book that reflects that of many of the societies discussed- that anthropogenic activities had and still ahve devistating affects on societies and the environment, and if we are blinded by our thirst for economic advancement, our society too will collapse.
The presumed conflict between environmentalism and business is an important issue to understand when studying environmental problems. What do you think about the quote on the bottom of page 37? Why does the author of the quote distinguish between accountants or attorneys and clergy members?
The business owners do things to generate revenue and turn a profit most efficiently—things that undercut that efficiency are seen as unnecessary, which is where the moral obligation comes in. The author of the quote distinguished between accountants/attorneys being business leaders rather than clergy members because accountants and attorneys are notoriously known for their sometimes blunt and direct ways that they approach a situation, and are often portrayed as cunning, powerful, and manipulative, perhaps a bit untrustworthy, by entertainment, which business men and women can be portrayed as too. Whereas clergy members are supposed to have moral obligations and a duty to do the right thing.
How did Montana go from being one of the richest states in the US to one of the poorest? What environmental factors and damage helped lead to this decline? Which environmental problems discussed by Diamond surprised you the most? Which problems angered you the most?
The deterioration of the three economic pillars (agriculture, logging, and mining) contributed to Montana becoming one of the poorest states in the US after experiencing great wealth. Montana is largely unwilling to change its down-home, small-town lifestyle and moral compass, which is proud of the industries on which it was built. The increased health risks and America's ability to import ore and wood from elsewhere have led to Montanans receiving over half of their income from outside of the state- through unemployment, social security, etc. Montana's location makes it unideal for farming, but the state has found ways around that through irrigation systems, dams, and wells. The water system surprised me the most because they portion out water to residents of communities on a total amount greater than the actual amount of water they have to work with. It was also stated that in the Bitterroot Valley, they've never even conducted research on the depth of their well system and fail to know too much about it. I also never really knew about controlled fires or thought about the fact that naturally, fires are helpful and don't kill the large trees of the forest.
In Ronald Bailey's critique of Collapse, what arguments does he make in suggesting that Diamond's explanations of why societies collapse are misleading or false?
Thinks Diamond focused too much on thomas Maultus' theory of populaion growth to explain why societies collapse. For the Mayans he believed This population/resource imbalance led to civilization-destroying warfare, which Diamond declares is "not surprising when one reflects that at least 5,000,000 people...were crammed into an area smaller than the state of Colorado. and Modern Rwanda illustrates a case where Malthus's worst-case scenario does seem to have been right," he declares. Diamond gets a lot of his facts right, but his analysis stinks. He essentially claims that Rwanda's genocide, in which Hutus massacred 800,000 Tutsis, was caused by too many people fighting over too little arable land. Bailey believe this to be false because in Colorado more than 4.5 million people whose standards of living are vastly more luxurious than those of 10th-century Mayan nobles and peasants and United Kingdom, with a population density of 631 people per square mile, produces more food than its people consume. Why? Because, he explains, the U.K. has highly efficient mechanized agriculture. Just so. Apparently there is nothing at all necessary about Malthusian collapse, if you've got tractors and fertilizers.
Jared Diamond writes on page 32: "The Bitterroot Valley presents a microcosm of the environmental problems plaguing the rest of the United States." Describe the environmental problems to which he is referring and explain how they apply to the rest of the United States.
increasing population, immigration, increasing scarcity and decreasing quality of water, locally and seasonally poor air quality, toxic wastes, increased risks from wildfires, forest deterioration, losses of soil or of its nutrients, losses of biodiversity, damage from introduced pest species, and the effects of climate change.
