Catcher and the Rye Chapters 15-26

Does Phoebe sound like Holden? If so, how?

Maybe what sounds like age-appropriate complaints for Phoebe shows us that Holden is a little bit immature, or maybe that they just come from the same family! See you tomorrow Yes, because she and Holden both know how to dance really well and keep up with each other and they both like to horse around and dance

What is it about the former Pencey student looking for his initials that depresses Holden so much? (Holden was born in 1934; how old would he be today?)

On veterans day this one guy that was like 50 came to his room and knocked on the door to ask for the bathroom even though it was at the end of corridor, apparently the guy wanted to see if his initials were still in the stall It depressed Holden because he and his roommate had to walk him to the bathroom while he looked for his initials and talked about how his years at pencey were the best and happiest of his life and he kept giving Holden and his roomate some "phony" advice for the future It depressed him because former Pencey who was looking for his initials was quite older now → He was all out of breath from just walking up the stairs It annoyed Holden to see him trying so hard to find something that he carved in so long ago (especially at Pencey) Holden would be 85 years old today

"All the two of them were eating for breakfast was toast and coffee. That depressed me. I hate it if I'm eating bacon and eggs or something and somebody else is only eating toast and coffee" (15. 143). What do we learn about Holden?

Once again Holden is uncomfortable when he has something someone else does not He hates drawing attention to himself and he hates feeling out of place He hates to be the one to have something and in a way he wishes he could help those that don't have what he has, but he doesn't know how Holden thinks that eating a bigger course that someone else makes him feel fat

Will Holden be okay?

Phoebe asks Holden if he really meant he's not going anywhere and Holden says that he's not and he's going straight home after Holden then sits and watches Phoebe ride the Carousel and it makes him so happy as she goes around and around and waves at him I think holden will be ok he's in a psych hospital and he's gonna go to a new school in the Fall Holden makes a comment at how much he actually misses all the people he talked about even if he talked about them in a mean way

7. Why is this novel titled The Catcher in the Rye?

Phoebe asks Holden what he wants to be (like occupation) , but Holden really doesn't know he cites a poem by Robert Burns → "if a body meet a body comin thro the rye" but holden thought it was "if a body catch a body.." Holden pictures all these kids playing in a field of rye and nobody older is around, but him and he's standing on the edge of some cliff and he has to catch everyone before the go off the cliff That's all he would do all day be the Catcher in the Rye and that's the only thing he would like to be Holden miss hears the lyrics of the song and Holden wants to catch the little children from the phoniness of the world, but in reality he needs someone to catch him and be there for him Throughout the book readers find Holden constantly looking for happiness in his lonely world We constantly see him meeting people and talking about others but he never seems to like anyone + he is seen to be very lonely and depressed Holden constantly hates on everything around him because it's either phony or fake or depressing (etc.) However, all Holden wants to be is happy and surrounded by people that love him and things that make him happy So, Holden wanted to be catcher in a rye He wants to be in a big field of rye with thousand of small kids running around Being a catcher in the rye is what Holden has been searching to be/become throughout this entire book A person that helps other and who is happy

In chapter 21, after Holden turns on the desk lamp in the room where Phoebe is sleeping, what does he do?

Phoebe doesn't even wake up He observes how Phoebe is super neat for a child and Holden's mother dresses her very nicely Holden goes over to D.B. desk and looks at all of Phoebe's books He opens the first textbook and sees that it says "Phoebe Weatherfield Caulfield" Phoebe hated her middle name (Josephine) so she would always make up a new one He then read through one of Phoebe's entire notebook She would always pass notes to her friends in it

Holden is comfortable with his sister-he is able to express his feelings about Pencey.

Phoebe is also comfortable with him as she tells him everything and gets super excited He tells her first that he just got out of Pencey early and that's why he isn't home wednesday Phoebe questions why holden isn't home wednesday instead and figures out he got kicked out again and gets very emotional about it tell him that their dad is gonna kill him and assuming he failed all his subjects again He says Pencey was filled with phonies and mean guys and it was the worst school he ever went to and everyone had a fraternity that he didn't belong to Phoebe - can't make her do something she doesn't want to do

What does Phoebe say in response to Holden not liking penecy?

Phoebe says that the reason he didn't like pencey was because he doesn't like anything and that depressed Holden even more Holden is trying to think about stuff he likes and all he can think about is the nuns he met and then this one boy at Elkton Hills named James Castle that wouldn't take back something he had said about this conceded boy Phil Stabile so Phil and a bunch of other boys went down to James's room to try and get him to take back what he said and they beat him up HE still wouldn't take back what he said and instead he jumped out the window Holden barely knew him, but he lent him a sweater and they were in the same math class, but he feels connected to him after what happend --> James is close to Holden's name in role call and he was wearing Holden's sweater and they share some of the same characteristics so it hints that it could possibly have been Holden who died and it scares him

According to Holden, Phoebe is a good dancer. What makes her a good dancer?

She can follow anything you do and if you hold her close it doesn't even matter if Holden is taller because she stays right with you and you can do some dips/jitterbug and she stays right with you In between numbers she's funny and stays in position and doesn't talk and you both have to stay right in position and wait for the music to play again

Why does Phoebe give Holden his hat back?

She throws it back in Holden's face because she's upset that Holden said she can't go with him out west and Holden tells her to shut up multiple times Holden just wants her to go back to school and is willing to walk her there, but Phoebe says she is not going back so Holden says that if he allows her to skip school today she must go back the next, but she doesn't say anything Then after the zoo and at the carousel Phoebe takes the hat out of Holden's coat pocket and puts it on Holden's head Holden then asks her if she still wants it and she says Holden can wear it a while

So, were Al Pike and Bob Robinson show-offs or did they have inferiority complexes??

*Al Pike* → The guy Jane was dating before her and Holden really knew each other → Holden describes him as being all muscles and no brains Thought he was a hot-shot because he would go off the High Dive at the Swimming pool Jane says he isn't a show off, but has an inferiority complex and she felt sorry for him Holden say that even whether he has an inferiority complex or not he's still a bastard and acts like one *Bob Robinson* - A friend of Holden's that really had an inferiority complex, but he was a nice guy Roberta that girl Holden tried to set Bob up with thought Bob was conceited just because he happened to mention he was captain of the Debate team Holden says the trouble with girls is that if they like a boy no matter how much of a bastard he is, they'll say he has an inferiority complex If a girl doesn't like the boy and he really has an inferiority complex they'll say he's conceited We learn something about Holden that he has similar feelings that Al pike and Bob Robinson have --> Holden himself has uncertain self-esteem --> Holden is defensive

What does Carl Luce mean when he says Holden needs to adjust himself to a certain extent?

Adapt, adjust, assimilate --> there's a way to adapt and lighten up and you don't have to be so uptight --> you can have your believes, but they shouldn't consume you

If Phoebe's middle name is Josephine, why did she write Phoebe Weatherfield Caulfield all over her notebook?

Because she hated her real middle name Everytime Holden saw Phoebe, she would always have a new middle name for herself

Mr. Antolini

Best teacher Holden has ever had, good sense of Humor, little older than D.B --> Picked up the body of James Castle without caring if his Jacket got bloody Ate dinner a lot with Holden's Fam after Holden got kicked out of Elkton Hills and he and his wife (Liilian) played tennis with Holden --> Mr. Antonolini was a lot like D.B in the way that he was witty and intellectual and he agreed with Holden that D.B had not business in Hollywood

What does not going in the museum reveal about holden>

Doesn't want to grow up --> Holden is nostalgic about childhood - he's afraid of change, resistant to change - desperatly wants to be a grown up, but he's terrified >When Holden gets excited he shouts and he's immature

Does Holden like imagining his funeral? Why or why not?

Drunk Holden imagines he has a bullet in his gut and staggers out of the bar to call Sally because he feels lonely and depressed He makes his way to central park to check on his theory about the ducks and he sits there shivering wondering if he got pneumonia and died and all the jerks (aunts , uncles , etc. ) that would come to his funeral He hates that fact that funerals are so formal and wants someone to literally dump him in a river → he hated going to see ALlie's grave I think Holden does not like imagining his funeral because it makes him feel depressed that all his family member (who never gave a damn about him) would be there He hated how they would all be there but it didn't matter cause they never truly were close He compared his funeral to like Allie's because all his lousy cousins and fifty aunts were there at his funeral "I have this stupid aunt with halitosis that kept saying how peaceful he looked lying there" But Holden would feel bad for his mom because she's sorta not over Allie's death yet so she wouldn't know how to take another death of one of her children He doesn't like to imagine his funeral because after what he saw with Allie he sees that his family is fake and doesn't care --> External lonieness; phony mourning --> Holden hates imagining being all alone because it brings to reality that he is alone

What is it about the kettle drum player that Holden likes so much?

He say Jesus probably would have liked the kettle drummer in the Orchestra the best out of the Whole Rockettes christmas show Holden has been watching him since he was little and he's the best Holden has ever seen → He only gets to play sometime, but when he does he does it so sweetly The Kettle drum person takes what he has to do seriously and conforms to the rules → Holden is attracted to those who don't bend the rules and show-off It reminds Holden of the good times with Allie as a kid doesn't show off --> never looks bored --> "stays in his lane" --> has a tiny part, but he conforms to the rules and his part

Why is Holden so upset at the obscenity he sees in the school?

He's upset with the fact that someone wrote "f you" on the wall and how people like Phoebe would see and wonder what it meant and then ask some kid and he would explain it and it would cause the kinds to think and maybe worry about it for a while Holden wanted to kill the kid that had written it, but he knew he didn't have the guts and instead he just wiped it off the wall

Once again, on page 194, as on page 112, Holden complains that "people never give your message to anybody." Why don't his messages get delivered?

Holden asks the headwaiter to ask Valencia if she wanted to have a drink with him, but complains that no one ever give the message Maybe the messages don't get delivered because they're so redicoles and people don't care enough Holden thinks of himself as being all mature, but in reality he's just a kid and he's nothing special and his requests are stupid

"It's not too bad when the sun's out, but the sun only comes out when it feels like coming out." What can you infer about Holden from this line / episode?

Holden connects the sun to happiness and Sometimes when he and his parents went to visit Allie some days would rain sometimes would be Sunny You can infer that Holden thinks that only good things happen sometimes because the universe is terrible Holden feels sensitive to life's unfairness --> feels small --> Holden is always depressed and the sun only comes out when he's happy which is often --> uncontrollability of life

What does Holden's meeting with sally reveal about

Holden has been isolated for so long so when he sees Sally he likes the idea of being with her and someone in general and says he loves her - -> but Holden messes it up by insulting her even though Sally might be a little bit of a phony --> But Holden has criticism for everything and he has a standard for the actors that can't be met and overall he's disatified

End of 17-19 Summary

Holden is beginning a long night of drinking, smoking, despair and loneliness. He agrees to meet Carl Luce, whom he knew at the Whooton School. He is served drinks at the Wicker Bar and observes what he calls "flits," or people whom he presumes are homosexual. Luce poses as a worldly, sophisticated intellectual, but he really is a phony *Afraid someone would say something smarter than he had* . Holden for some reason-because Luce won a prize for having a large vocabulary?-is impressed and asks Luce a lot of questions about women and sex. Holden is confused, fascinated, and uncertain about his own sexuality; "You know what the trouble with me is? I can never get really sexy--I mean really sexy--with a girl I don't like a lot. I mean I have to like her a lot. If I don't, I sort of lose my goddam desire for her and all. Boy, it really screws up my sex life something awful. My sex life stinks." Of course, this attitude is not actually a problem, but is quite commendable. Luce might be right about Holden's need for therapy though. It's a pretty good idea "to recognize the patterns of your mind." Luce says that his psychoanalyst father helped him "to adjust [himself] to a certain extent;" is this adjusting the same as conforming? Is this kind of conformity acceptable and even essential?

"Then all of a sudden, something very spooky started happening. Every time I came to the end of a block and stepped off the goddam curb, I had this feeling that I'd never get to the other side of the street. I thought I'd just go down, down, down, and nobody'd ever see me again. Boy, did it scare me. You can't imagine. I started sweating like a bastard--my whole shirt and underwear and everything. Then I started doing something else. Every time I'd get to the end of a block I'd make believe I was talking to my brother Allie. I'd say to him, "Allie, don't let me disappear." What is happening to Holden?

Holden is getting more and more depressed and slipping farther from reality and closer to his nervous breakdown Everything seems to be slipping away and he can't seem to hold on to his sanity has he is just mopping his way through life He tries to hold on to the thought of Allie because Allie was the one good thing in his life, but Allie is dead and can't save him from what is happening inside Holden Holden plans to make his way to the west and be a deaf-mute so he wouldn't have to talk to anyone and he could just live on the money he makes, but at least he would be away from everything that caused him pain → All he wanted to do first was write Phoebe a note to get her to meet him somewhere to say good-by and he would give the note to the principal to give to Phoebe

What plan does Holden propose to Sally? What is her response? What is it that Holden wants? Is he running to something or away from something?

Holden says he sort of hated Sally after she talked with some phony boy she knew from Andover for about 10 hrs and completely ignored him Sally then wants to go Ice-skating at Radio city and then they realize that they are the worst and stop to go get a drink Holden says he hates school and all he wants to do is get out of New York so he proposes that they get the heck out of there and Holden knows a guy in Greenwich village that they could borrow his car for a couple of weeks and they can drive through Massachusetts and Vermont Holden has $180 in the bank and they could live up in cabin camps there until money runs out and he would get a job He also says that they would get a house together and maybe get married Sally responds sore saying that you can't just get up and do that especially since they're children and Holden gets defensive

In chapter 16, Holden walks and walks. How does he occupy his time? Whom does he encounter? How is he feeling?

Holden walks and walks and he can't stop thinking about the nuns he met and how they would stand outside department stores holding those beat-up straw baskets He had some time before he met Sally so he decided to take a long walk He thought about the nuns and he tried to picture his mother or somebody or his aunt or Sally Hayes's crazy mother standing outside some department store and collecting dough for poor people Holden encounters a poor-looking family that looks like they just came out of church > The couple is just walking not paying any attention to their kid even as cars came by screeching on their breaks Also he wanted to get Phoebe a record that she wanted that was on broadway and give it to her when she went rollerskating in the park on sunday Holden after get the tickets for him and Sally to the Lunt's show He's feeling depressed as he walks through the park and it's empty and disgusting with dog poop everywhere and spit and cigarette buds He then takes a cab to the park to see if he can find Phoebe there because she's usually there skating by/ in the Mall on Sundays

Is Holden Running away from something?

Holden wants to get away from reality while Sally says there's plenty of time to do stuff like that after Holden goes to college and etc, → Holden feels like if they don't do something now everything is gonna change and be different and they don't see eye to eye Holden is trying to run away from reality and the fact that he has to grow up and he didn't even want to go anywhere with sally, but in that moment he meant it because he wanted so bad to get away Yes he desires to escape reality and adulthood and responsibility to a place where everything is ok and there's not phonies --> He's afraid of death too because of Allie and James Castle --> He's incapable of saying it, but he's afraid

What are your thoughts about Mr. Antolini's putting his hand on Holden's head?

Holden was sleeping on the couch and Mr. Antolini was drunk as heck after a party he had early and Holden wakes to Mr. Antolini's hand on his head → Mr. Antolini was sitting on the floor in the darks sort of Petting Holden Mr. Antolini said that he was simply sitting on the floor Admiring, but it scares the hell out of Holden and he immediately starts putting his pants on and getting ready to leave Holden says that he knows more perverts from the schools he's been too and they're always perverty around him → I think Holden is not entirely honest about his sexuality and it scares him to think that he could possibly be gay or have feelings for a man or a man can have feelings for him or like him Mr. Antolini tries to act all cool and play it off and trying to get Holden to stay, but as Holden gets ready to Leave Mr. Antolini is just staring at him and stayed in the doorway as Holden got on the elevator and he told Holden to get his bags from the station and come back

What's Holden's plan at the end of chapter 23? What does he say nearly happens on the stairs?

Holden's parent come back and Holden has to hide in the closet → the whole room smells like smoke and Phoebe must cover for Holden to her mom by saying she lit one and through it out the window Holden then got out of the closet and got ready to leave despite Phoebe not wanting him to and he was super nervous he was gonna get caught He asks Phoebe for some money and all she has is her Christmas dough, but she can lend him some > She lends him $85+ and tells Holden he can pay her back at the play --> this makes Holden start to cry and Phoebe comes over to him to try . and make him stop, but he can't just stop Phoebe is concerned that if Holden leaves now he'll miss her play, but Holden says that He'll probably Stay at Mr. Antonolini's until tuesday and then he'll come home He stopped crying and got up and told Phoebe they would keep in touch → Phoebe offered Holden to sleep with her, but Holden said no, but Holden gave her his Hunting Hat because she likes those kind of hats It was a lot easier for Holden to get out of the House than in because he didn't care anymore if he got caught Holden walked down the back stairs instead of taking the elevator → he nearly broke his neck on the 10 million garbage pails, but he got out alright and the elevator boy didn't even see him

inferiority complexes??

Low self-esteem

Why won't Holden go into the Museum of Natural History?

The Museum is where Phoebe might be with her class → But Holden realizes it's sunday and she prob wouldn't be there Holden mentions all the things he remembers about the indians and the exhibits from when he was a kid and he liked how everything stayed the same > it brought Holden comfort that everything stayed the same because Holden hates change → The only thing that would change would be the person who sees the exhibits → One of his last pure childhood memories he has and he doesn't want that messed up Holden thinks about Phoebe going to the museum and how she'd be different every time and that kinda made him upset When Holden gets to the Museum all of a sudden he wouldn't go in for a million bucks just because he'd didn't feel like it even after he walked so far through the park If Phoebe was there he's probably go in, but she wasn't so he just caught a cab to meet up w/ Sally

Alfred Lunt and Lynn Fontanne,

The Old couple in the movie Holden watches with Sally --> Holden doesn't like them very much but he points out that they are different they acted like they knew they were celebrities and they were too good --> They acted like Ernie plays the piano like they were showing off.

Does Holden enjoy his afternoon with Sally? Explain his observations on actors and acting, and theatre-goers.

They messed around in the back of a cab and Holden told her he Loved her even tho it was a lie he meant it in that moment The Show they saw wasn't as bad as some of the the ones Holden had seen, but it was on the crappy side all about the life of a old couple Holden says he didn't care too much if one of the characters died because they were just a bunch of actors, and he could never get too into these actors The actors acted like real people and not just actors → They acted as if they knew they were celebrities → they were too good The actors acted in a way that old Ernie plays the piano → if you do something too good you start showing off

Holden and Sally themselves,

They're all over each other at first and Holden even says he loves her chapter 17

Girls Holden sees at the Biltmore Hotel

They're waiting for their dates because they just got back from vacation Holden wonders what they would do after college and how they would probably marry dopey guys (Page 123)

Carl Luce

Very intellectual and Holden wants to have a very intellectual conversation --> Supposed to be Holden's student advisor at one of his schools --> Holden suspects he's flitty --> Little older than Holden --> Not a worldly as Holden imagines --> he's a jerk Kept asking when Holden would grow up Knows a lot about sex

What do we learn about Holden? : "It isn't important, I know, but I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases. It sounds terrible to say it, but I can even get to hate somebody, just looking at them, if they have cheap suitcases with them...For a while when I was at Elkton Hills, I roomed with this boy, Dick Slagle, that had these very inexpensive suitcases. He used to keep them under the bed, instead of on the rack, so that nobody's see them standing next to mine. It depressed holy hell out of me, and I kept wanting to throw mine out or something, or even trade with him" (15. 141).

We learn that Holden can easily hate is very judgemental of people he doesn't even know Holden hates when people have cheap suitcases because in a way it makes him feel guilty for being wealthy and having a more expensive suitcase Holden feels as if he's making everyone else around him seem less important > Holden hates how this makes him feel because he doesn't want to be seen as a person who is too materialistic in comparison to others (or even to wealthy and carless) > He doesn't want to be seen as a rich phony In a way, having nicer suitcases " affects one's relationship with someone who does not have as nice of a suitcase because like his relationship with Dick, Dick was jealous of Holden and his suitcases and because of it he kept making fun of Holden's nice things > Maybe things would be different if Holden didn't have such nice suitcases Holden wishes that people wouldn't give a crap about nice things but at the end of the day if you have something they don't or something better they're gonna care We also see that Holden doesn't like standing out or drawing attention to himself like wealthy suitcases might do if he's in public

"The thing is, I never liked Romeo too much after Mercutio gets stabbed by that other man--Juliet's cousin--what's his name?...I mean I liked him the best in the play, old Mercutio...He was very smart and entertaining and all. The thing is, it drives me crazy if somebody gets killed-- especially somebody very smart and entertaining and all--and it's somebody else's fault" (15. 145). What do we learn about Holden?

We learn that Holden isn't too fond of the whole romance thing and he blames Romeo and Juliet's Romance for killing the innocent Mercutio Holden enjoys plays that are entertaining and when the entertaining character gets killed off the whole play is ruined .

Holden gets to use the one bit of information from his history exam about Egyptian mummies-why has this information stuck with him?

When Holden goes over to the Museum by Phoebe's school to wait for her two kids come to ask him if he knows where the Mummies are Holden tells them all about how the Egyptians buried their dead

At the zoo, Holden knows not to put his hands on Phoebe's shoulders a second time. He says, "Kids are funny. You have to watch what you're doing." What does he mean?

When they get to the zoo Holden catches up with Phoebe and puts his hands on her shoulders, but Phoebe bend her knees and slid to the ground to get away from Holden and Holden knows he would have paid for it if he put his hands on her shoulders again Holden means that sometimes kids get in moods and you're not sure really how they will act and you have to be careful of what you do or say because you never know how they're gonna take it When Kids are mad they never laugh and it's hard to get them back to normal and to like you again

Mr. Antolini's poem for Holden

Writes down a poem for Holden when they are talking at his house " The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for once" -- Describes Holden and Mr. Antolini tells Holden that he needs to figure out what he's doing with his life before he falls and "dies" If Holden Applies himself in school to gain knowledge, he'll find that he's not the only one to be scared, confused or sickened by Human behavior and he's not alone because many people have been just as Morally and spiritually troubled as Holden is rn --> Mr, Antolini emphasises the need for an education to open holden's mind

Consider the topic of compatibility, or the lack of it between couples. Consider the girls Holden sees at the Biltmore Hotel while waiting for Sally, Holden and Sally themselves, the real-life couple Alfred Lunt and Lynn Fontanne, the couples in the movies and shows Holden watches, the maybe-a-couple of Luce and his Chinese girlfriend. What is Holden thinking? Worrying about? Hoping?

compatibility, or harmony between people, is something Holden desperately wants but has no idea how to achieve. So I think that question was an invitation for you to think about Holdens characteristics. He is so lonely and compatibility with someone his own age is very alien to him. What he has with Phoebe he can't seem to get with other people.

bourgeois

of or characteristic of the middle class, typically with reference to its perceived materialistic values or conventional attitudes"**